I got this email from a friend one Sunday:
subj: "... ?"
body:
"thought: atheism and belief in free will are mutually exclusive.
discuss."
==
Then, during a conversation on AIM, the argument was made:
Friend: "so the argument goes like this:"
Me: "if there's no god to give us free will, then we're simply slaves to chance and/or the laws of physics, chemistry, etc...?"
Friend: "basically, yeah"
Me: "go ahead and say it however you were going to...
(don't let me stop you.. i'm curious)"
Friend: "okay
assumption 1: god=supernatural power of some kind, which is the only thing that can interfere with the laws of physics etc
anything
whatever
call it divine intervention"

Me: "k"
Friend: "assumption 2: without that intervention, we are slaves to our environment, which in turn was enslaved by ITS environment
example that one of my friends used:
"okay, so say I like Batman. how is that possibly fated?"
answer: you watched batman when you were little, or your parents made choices while raising you, or your environment tells you to like batman
or something
you can draw it all back
from the beginning of time, the movement of every single atom is predetermined
it's the answer to one big equation
and if we had a big enough computer we could solve it
the only way out of this is a higher power to interfere with that equation"
...
==
After reading up a bit on wikipedia's article on free will (which I highly recommend if you're interested in learning any more about any of the below) to fortify my personal perspective with some background knowledge and terminology, I wrote back the below email. Two days later, we were discussing almost the same stuff in my Philosophy of Religion class (by way of the topic "Omniscience"). I hope that gives a little sense of how well this class fits me, at least in some regards. Do let me know what your personal views on free will, determinism, etc and the connections to atheism, theism, etc are. Comments are fun for discussion, but go ahead and email to me if you want instead : )
1) yeah, i've thought that that is maybe true. (everything is determined by everything in the past/present combined with laws of nature/physics.)
2) but, there's a decent possibility that there is some uncertainty/unpredictability/... which would throw off the deterministic nature of a universe without a god. as you pointed out, this still leaves two options:
a. the quantum uncertainty/unpredictability is free will (or where free will comes into play)
b. one doesn't control this uncertainty in any way and it is not an expression of free will... in which case we still don't have free will, even if the universe isn't perfectly deterministic
and then:
3) what is free will? even if we don't know if we have it... or even if we don't have it, is there any point in approaching life from that perspective vs. thinking about oneself and one's actions in the context of free will?
okay... so i recommend reading (or at least skimming the parts you find more interesting) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will . the below are some things that i think are particularly relevant to where our discussion was going/my perspective. below these quotes i'll toss in my thoughts on which way i would lean. after glancing at the article hit me back with which perspective they outlined you most identify with (if any).
=====
one definition of free will (not from wiki):
"the partial freedom of the agent, in acts of conscious choice, from the determining compulsion of heredity, environment and circumstance."
a paragraph on compatibilism that seems to match what i think a bit, esp the sentence in stars:
"Compatibilists maintain that determinism is compatible with free will. A common strategy employed by "classical compatibilists", such as Thomas Hobbes, is to claim that a person acts freely only when the person willed the act and the person could have done otherwise, if the person had decided to. Hobbes sometimes attributes such compatibilist freedom to the person and not to some abstract notion of will, asserting, for example, that "no liberty can be inferred to the will, desire, or inclination, but the liberty of the man; which consisteth in this, that he finds no stop, in doing what he has the will, desire, or inclination to doe."[9] In articulating this crucial proviso, David Hume writes, "this hypothetical liberty is universally allowed to belong to every one who is not a prisoner and in chains".[10] To illustrate their position, compatibilists point to clear-cut cases of someone's free will being denied, through rape, murder, theft, or other forms of constraint. In these cases, free will is lacking not because the past is causally determining the future, but because the aggressor is overriding the victim's desires and preferences about his own actions. The aggressor is coercing the victim and, according to compatibilists, this is what overrides free will. Thus, they argue that **determinism does not matter; what matters is that individuals' choices are the results of their own desires and preferences, and are not overridden by some external (or internal) force.[9][10]*** To be a compatibilist, one need not endorse any particular conception of free will, but only deny that determinism is at odds with free will.[1]"
mentions chaos and epistemic limits, which seem to be relevant:
"In Elbow Room, Dennett presents an argument for a compatibilist theory of free will, which he further elaborated in the book Freedom Evolves.[17] The basic reasoning is that, if one excludes God, an infinitely powerful demon, and other such possibilities, then because of chaos and epistemic limits on the precision of our knowledge of the current state of the world, the future is ill-defined for all finite beings. The only well-defined things are "expectations". The ability to do "otherwise" only makes sense when dealing with these expectations, and not with some unknown and unknowable future."
meh... that seems to be a bit strict... but then, i would say that:
"Most incompatibilists reject the idea that freedom of action consists simply in "voluntary" behavior. They insist, rather, that free will means that man must be the "ultimate" or "originating" cause of his actions. He must be a causa sui, in the traditional phrase."
any takers?:
"Accounts of libertarianism subdivide into supernatural theories and scientific or naturalistic theories. Supernatural theories hold that a non-physical mind or soul overrides physical causality, so that physical events in the brain that lead to the performance of actions do not have an entirely physical explanation. This approach is allied to mind-body dualism, and sometimes has a theological motivation."
some from the science section:
"Early scientific thought often portrayed the universe as deterministic,[51] and some thinkers claimed that the simple process of gathering sufficient information would allow them to predict future events with perfect accuracy. Modern science, on the other hand, is a mixture of deterministic and stochastic theories.[52] Quantum mechanics predicts events only in terms of probabilities, casting doubt on whether the universe is deterministic at all. The possibility that the universe at the macroscopic level may be governed by indeterministic laws, as it is generally accepted to be at the quantum level, has revived interest in free will among physicists.[53] However, there are a number of objections.
It is claimed by some that quantum indeterminism is confined to microscopic phenomena.[54] The claim that events at the atomic or particulate level are unknowable can be challenged experimentally and even technologically: for instance, some hardware random number generators work by amplifying quantum effects into practically usable signals. However, this only amounts to macroscopic indeterminism if it can be shown that microscopic events really are indeterministic.
This consideration leads to the criticism of indeterminism-based free will on the basis that quantum mechanics is not really random, but merely unpredictable. Some scientific determinists, following Albert Einstein, believe in so-called "hidden variable theories" according to which the unpredictability of quantum mechanics is due to ignorance of an additional set of physical variables not explicitly included in the standard theory (see the Bohm interpretation and the EPR paradox).[55]
There is also a further, more philosophical, objection. It has been argued that if an action is taken due to quantum randomness, this in itself means that free will is absent, since such action cannot be controllable by someone claiming to possess such free will.[56] If this argument is conjoined with incompatibilism, then it would follow that free will is impossible, since it would be incompatible with both determinism and indeterminism, and these are the only options. If it is conjoined with compatibilism, on the other hand, it would mean that free will is only possible in a deterministic universe."
=====
my leanings:
i'd go for a not too strict definition of free will which emphasizes that what one does is a result of their desires, preferences, thoughts, ... (i dance when i feel like dancing, i play robo when i want to play robo, ...). i'd also lean towards compatibilism: i don't think it really matters if everything is predetermined or not. what matters is that as far as we experience our consciousness, actions and the world, we have free will and can choose what to do or not to do. what is the alternative perspective? what can possibly be gained from viewing the world as if we all lack free will? in some senses when it comes to philosophy i think i'm a bit of a pragmatist. i don't know much about the exact philosophical definition of pragmatism but what i mean is that i tend to strongly consider the usefulness of various beliefs. i think it is useful to think about and approach the world in the context of free will (whether or not it exists) and not very useful to act as if we don't have free will. an argument of utility perhaps?
Thursday, September 18, 2008
Human Rights (my thoughts and ponderings while working on my essay)
Research for my essay for my GenEd "Moral and Legal Foundations of Human Rights" class led me all over the place. I read a lot about a human rights abuses around the world that was saddening: the status of basic human rights for the majority of the world population is very poor. As I followed links from one website to another I was, however, somewhat encouraged by the discourse and debate on display. There was evidence of discussion and effort on all levels seeking to change things for the better. Overall, the effect is definitely negative, and leaves me with a worse view of the state of the world than before, but at least it also came with reason for maintaining optimism and hope for the eventual future.
(If you're curious, some of the specific issues that were the most depressing related to women's basic rights and gender inequality (with regard to marriage rights, sexual and other violence, abortion, labor, education, suffrage, and more) and those relating to violations of basic civil rights such as those embodied in the US Bill of Rights (especially freedom of expression, association, assembly, and religion).)
Okay... also ran into references to human rights in the U.S. A couple examples briefly discussed were right to adequate sustenance (food) and medical care. The reference to the right to medical care reminded me of a point of contention regarding health care. Do people have a right to health care? Does this right apply to those who require health care that they cannot afford? If so, what responsibility do they have to leading healthy lifestyles when possible? If there is a system (either state-run/universal or even just for a given employer or insurer) that spreads the cost of insurance for health care across all of the recipients of health care, should everyone be forced to pay more to provide for the extensive health care costs of a few individuals who consciously make lifestyle choices that are blatantly damaging to their health? One example is people who smoke cigarettes. Should everyone else have to pay a higher premium so that they can have expensive procedures required as a result of lung cancer from smoking? To put the question differently, should smokers have to pay more for health cover? What about people who engage in other risky activities? Smoking cigarettes is one example, but what about other drug use or abuse, engaging in extreme sports, driving without a seatbelt, or even eating unhealthily or leading a life devoid of all exercise?
As a separate question, do you think that "economic" and "social" rights such as rights to food, shelter, and medical care should be considered universal human rights?
And again separate, but very much related to the general topic of human rights (and perhaps general applications of ethics, even to non-humans)
Inherent human dignity is often cited as the basis for human rights in modern human rights discourse (as opposed to rights derived from a supreme being or from nature). Human dignity has also been cited as a philosophically significant distinguishing factor between humans and other Earthlings (to borrow the term from the film by the same name) that justifies inconsistent ethical treatment of humans and other Earthlings.
> Is there such a thing as inherent human dignity? What is it? If it is undefinable and intangible, and defying definition, is it anything but an abstract construction to justify universal human rights and the application of those rights and human ethics exclusively to the human race?
If the inclusion of both of these issues makes it difficult to think about or discuss, feel free to just address human dignity in the context of one of them, though I would challenge you to afterwards explore its application to the other. Does denying the existence of a philosophically relevant distinction between humans and other species preclude a philosophical basis for universal human rights?
Apparently when Alexander defeated a king named Porus in battle, Alexander asked how Porus wanted to be treated, and Porus said he wanted to be treated as a king would treat a king... and that that encompassed it all...
"Imagine now a situation in which a dissident is at the mercy of his torturer and the torturer were to ask (in dark jest perhaps), "Now how do you wish to be treated?", both knowing full well that the torturer had the power of life and death over the dissident. And the dissident were to say, "As a human begin should treat another human being." And the torturer were to reply, "Elaborate your point." And the dissident were to say, "When I said treat me as a human being should treat another human being, everything was contained in that." I invite you to regard this statement as an expression of human dignity and now join me in exploring it from a religious perspective..."
-Sharma, "Dignity as a Foundation for Human Rights Discourse"
Regarding not meeting human rights standards, the U.S. is surprisingly weak on this considering its relative prosperity and international status. We fail to ratify a number of important international treaties. Some of these include the International Criminal Court, the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), Topics relating to human rights issues in the U.S. include corporal punishment in schools, the death penalty, CIA secret detention centers, Guantanamo Bay, torture (including waterboarding - I discovered a nice fiery debate on the wikipedia talk page for waterboarding while doing research for a torture essay last year... yes, waterboarding is torture, please), other mistreatment of prisoner's which violates even the U.S.'s somewhat poor standards for treatment of prisoners, extraordinary rendition to secret detention centers, habeus corpus denials through the Military Commissions Act, ...
if you're interested in any of the details, this is a summary from the Amnesty International Report 2007 (perhaps you can find the 2008 version if it's available yet) on the U.S. http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/americas/north-america/usa?page=1#report
During my research I stumbled upon this Amnesty International petition to 'tear down' Guantanamo... one pixel at a time. For an important cause, and also kinda cool and artsy. To check it out and/or sign, visit: http://tearitdown.org/
(If you're curious, some of the specific issues that were the most depressing related to women's basic rights and gender inequality (with regard to marriage rights, sexual and other violence, abortion, labor, education, suffrage, and more) and those relating to violations of basic civil rights such as those embodied in the US Bill of Rights (especially freedom of expression, association, assembly, and religion).)
Okay... also ran into references to human rights in the U.S. A couple examples briefly discussed were right to adequate sustenance (food) and medical care. The reference to the right to medical care reminded me of a point of contention regarding health care. Do people have a right to health care? Does this right apply to those who require health care that they cannot afford? If so, what responsibility do they have to leading healthy lifestyles when possible? If there is a system (either state-run/universal or even just for a given employer or insurer) that spreads the cost of insurance for health care across all of the recipients of health care, should everyone be forced to pay more to provide for the extensive health care costs of a few individuals who consciously make lifestyle choices that are blatantly damaging to their health? One example is people who smoke cigarettes. Should everyone else have to pay a higher premium so that they can have expensive procedures required as a result of lung cancer from smoking? To put the question differently, should smokers have to pay more for health cover? What about people who engage in other risky activities? Smoking cigarettes is one example, but what about other drug use or abuse, engaging in extreme sports, driving without a seatbelt, or even eating unhealthily or leading a life devoid of all exercise?
As a separate question, do you think that "economic" and "social" rights such as rights to food, shelter, and medical care should be considered universal human rights?
And again separate, but very much related to the general topic of human rights (and perhaps general applications of ethics, even to non-humans)
Inherent human dignity is often cited as the basis for human rights in modern human rights discourse (as opposed to rights derived from a supreme being or from nature). Human dignity has also been cited as a philosophically significant distinguishing factor between humans and other Earthlings (to borrow the term from the film by the same name) that justifies inconsistent ethical treatment of humans and other Earthlings.
> Is there such a thing as inherent human dignity? What is it? If it is undefinable and intangible, and defying definition, is it anything but an abstract construction to justify universal human rights and the application of those rights and human ethics exclusively to the human race?
If the inclusion of both of these issues makes it difficult to think about or discuss, feel free to just address human dignity in the context of one of them, though I would challenge you to afterwards explore its application to the other. Does denying the existence of a philosophically relevant distinction between humans and other species preclude a philosophical basis for universal human rights?
Apparently when Alexander defeated a king named Porus in battle, Alexander asked how Porus wanted to be treated, and Porus said he wanted to be treated as a king would treat a king... and that that encompassed it all...
"Imagine now a situation in which a dissident is at the mercy of his torturer and the torturer were to ask (in dark jest perhaps), "Now how do you wish to be treated?", both knowing full well that the torturer had the power of life and death over the dissident. And the dissident were to say, "As a human begin should treat another human being." And the torturer were to reply, "Elaborate your point." And the dissident were to say, "When I said treat me as a human being should treat another human being, everything was contained in that." I invite you to regard this statement as an expression of human dignity and now join me in exploring it from a religious perspective..."
-Sharma, "Dignity as a Foundation for Human Rights Discourse"
Regarding not meeting human rights standards, the U.S. is surprisingly weak on this considering its relative prosperity and international status. We fail to ratify a number of important international treaties. Some of these include the International Criminal Court, the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), Topics relating to human rights issues in the U.S. include corporal punishment in schools, the death penalty, CIA secret detention centers, Guantanamo Bay, torture (including waterboarding - I discovered a nice fiery debate on the wikipedia talk page for waterboarding while doing research for a torture essay last year... yes, waterboarding is torture, please), other mistreatment of prisoner's which violates even the U.S.'s somewhat poor standards for treatment of prisoners, extraordinary rendition to secret detention centers, habeus corpus denials through the Military Commissions Act, ...
if you're interested in any of the details, this is a summary from the Amnesty International Report 2007 (perhaps you can find the 2008 version if it's available yet) on the U.S. http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/americas/north-america/usa?page=1#report
During my research I stumbled upon this Amnesty International petition to 'tear down' Guantanamo... one pixel at a time. For an important cause, and also kinda cool and artsy. To check it out and/or sign, visit: http://tearitdown.org/
Australian Goods?... Spring Break ... Daily Eavesdropping ... Cultural tidbits
hey! does anyone want anything from australia? boomerang? novelty t-shirt? plastic model of the opera house? if you want something particularly expensive, i can always purchase it on your behalf and you can pay me later. (i already have a request for a CDC (Cairns Dive Center, the people I'm diving the GBR (Great Barrier Reef) with) t-shirt and a VB (Victoria Bitter - big Australian beer) t-shirt. let the random requests flow)
Alright... so now that I mentioned it, my 'spring break' plans (they call it mid-semester break here): Fly to Cairns (3 hrs?), 1 night in a hostel, depart the next morning with CDC for a 3-day/2-night live-aboard dive trip on the reef. All accommodations and equipment and food etc included aboard the boat. (I'm doing the first half of my scuba certification (theory (I've got to get on it... gotta finish before Sat for the pool and haven't started) and pool learning) here in Sydney (Sydney Dive Academy, SSI), and doing the open-water dives to finish the certification on the dive trip.) After that, probably another night in a hostel in Cairns, then up the coast to the Daintree Rainforest... where we can explore the rainforest and the nearby beaches for a few nights... then back to Cairns for a possible white-water rafting trip before flying back! I'm travelling with an Australian girl (Mel - Melissa) whose family is from Sri Lanka who I might at a a friend's (Georgie's) 21st where I was taken by Emily from my Philosophy of Religion class.
As I was settling in before a Thurs 1-2pm lecture for Control Systems (in Webster Theatre B - they call lecture halls theatres), I noticed this sign on the wall:
"NOTICE: THIS THEATRE HAS FOLD DOWN SEATS, PLEASE CHECK THAT THE SEAT IS IN CORRECT POSITION BEFORE SITTING DOWN."
Overheard at the bus stop; conversation between three American girls:
American girl: "I always wanted to be a surgeon. And then I got to freshman year of college and was going out and partying and I decided that drinking and partying was more important than being a surgeon. That's what happened to my dream."
"I wanted to be an opera star."
"I wanted to be an astronaut."
Instead of "How're you doing?" -> "How're you going?" By bike. Unless it's raining, in which case by bus. (A joke... they expect a response like: "Good and you?")
Instead of "cotton candy" -> "fairy floss."
Instead of "sprite"/"7-up"/... -> "lemonade." They essentially don't have real lemonade here. If you ask for a lemonade in a restaurant or ever refer to lemonade, they think you're talking about Sprite (or an equivalent). I mean... I don't have a problem with referring to things by different names (okay... fairy floss??), but what about real lemonade?! They're totally missing out, and Sprite is a horrible substitution. Furthermore... "when life hands you lemons..." what do Australians do with them?
Alright, how about this one. In Australia, a lawyer that practices in court is called a barrister (okay, fine for now)... and when they're in court, they wear wigs! Full on white, curly, George Washington wigs. Always. And robes too, I think. But wigs! Really! Duude... I mean, having the queen on your money is one thing...
So I bought some bagels the other day (not nearly as easy as in the States... they're pretty expensive even bulk, and they don't have much of a selection, you can't get them very fresh, and they don't have delicious awesome bagel shops for the most part)... and the packaging said: "97% fat free." Now, I may be missing something... do we do that? I mean, I know our packaging says when a product that has a relatively significant fat/sugar/etc content it often might say "Low Fat" or "Less Fat" or even "50% less fat" or... but on bagels? They do it on all kinds of stuff. And I mean, it's true... for every 100 grams of those bagels (according to the nutrition facts), there are ~3 grams of fat. But was anyone really worried about that? Does it really help anyone? Next time I'm not going to buy bagels unless I find some that are at least 98% fat free. Or, I would, but if I hold myself to that standard, I won't be eating any more bagels, and they're quite convenient for lunches (they've been a part of every lunch I've taken to school so far, with flavored cream cheese, onions (sometimes) and red bell peppers (oh yeah... they call bell peppers "capsicums" here... scientific name I think) and an apple (but not in the bagel)).
And probably the last of this line of cultural/language differences for this post...
Tasty cheese is a kind of cheese here. As in, a legit type of cheese. Like you buy a pack of cheese and it could say... mozzarella, parmesan, brie, jack, or tasty. ?!
Okay... so clearly you should just pretend that I posted one of these little chunks once per day. ;)
Alright... so now that I mentioned it, my 'spring break' plans (they call it mid-semester break here): Fly to Cairns (3 hrs?), 1 night in a hostel, depart the next morning with CDC for a 3-day/2-night live-aboard dive trip on the reef. All accommodations and equipment and food etc included aboard the boat. (I'm doing the first half of my scuba certification (theory (I've got to get on it... gotta finish before Sat for the pool and haven't started) and pool learning) here in Sydney (Sydney Dive Academy, SSI), and doing the open-water dives to finish the certification on the dive trip.) After that, probably another night in a hostel in Cairns, then up the coast to the Daintree Rainforest... where we can explore the rainforest and the nearby beaches for a few nights... then back to Cairns for a possible white-water rafting trip before flying back! I'm travelling with an Australian girl (Mel - Melissa) whose family is from Sri Lanka who I might at a a friend's (Georgie's) 21st where I was taken by Emily from my Philosophy of Religion class.
As I was settling in before a Thurs 1-2pm lecture for Control Systems (in Webster Theatre B - they call lecture halls theatres), I noticed this sign on the wall:
"NOTICE: THIS THEATRE HAS FOLD DOWN SEATS, PLEASE CHECK THAT THE SEAT IS IN CORRECT POSITION BEFORE SITTING DOWN."
Overheard at the bus stop; conversation between three American girls:
American girl: "I always wanted to be a surgeon. And then I got to freshman year of college and was going out and partying and I decided that drinking and partying was more important than being a surgeon. That's what happened to my dream."
"I wanted to be an opera star."
"I wanted to be an astronaut."
Instead of "How're you doing?" -> "How're you going?" By bike. Unless it's raining, in which case by bus. (A joke... they expect a response like: "Good and you?")
Instead of "cotton candy" -> "fairy floss."
Instead of "sprite"/"7-up"/... -> "lemonade." They essentially don't have real lemonade here. If you ask for a lemonade in a restaurant or ever refer to lemonade, they think you're talking about Sprite (or an equivalent). I mean... I don't have a problem with referring to things by different names (okay... fairy floss??), but what about real lemonade?! They're totally missing out, and Sprite is a horrible substitution. Furthermore... "when life hands you lemons..." what do Australians do with them?
Alright, how about this one. In Australia, a lawyer that practices in court is called a barrister (okay, fine for now)... and when they're in court, they wear wigs! Full on white, curly, George Washington wigs. Always. And robes too, I think. But wigs! Really! Duude... I mean, having the queen on your money is one thing...
So I bought some bagels the other day (not nearly as easy as in the States... they're pretty expensive even bulk, and they don't have much of a selection, you can't get them very fresh, and they don't have delicious awesome bagel shops for the most part)... and the packaging said: "97% fat free." Now, I may be missing something... do we do that? I mean, I know our packaging says when a product that has a relatively significant fat/sugar/etc content it often might say "Low Fat" or "Less Fat" or even "50% less fat" or... but on bagels? They do it on all kinds of stuff. And I mean, it's true... for every 100 grams of those bagels (according to the nutrition facts), there are ~3 grams of fat. But was anyone really worried about that? Does it really help anyone? Next time I'm not going to buy bagels unless I find some that are at least 98% fat free. Or, I would, but if I hold myself to that standard, I won't be eating any more bagels, and they're quite convenient for lunches (they've been a part of every lunch I've taken to school so far, with flavored cream cheese, onions (sometimes) and red bell peppers (oh yeah... they call bell peppers "capsicums" here... scientific name I think) and an apple (but not in the bagel)).
And probably the last of this line of cultural/language differences for this post...
Tasty cheese is a kind of cheese here. As in, a legit type of cheese. Like you buy a pack of cheese and it could say... mozzarella, parmesan, brie, jack, or tasty. ?!
Okay... so clearly you should just pretend that I posted one of these little chunks once per day. ;)
Whoops, and How is it?
((Preface: Okay... So I'm bad at blogging. I've been keeping track of stuff I want to write about (things I've done, seen, noticed, or thought about)... but I never seem to find time to actually turn it in to a form that is worthy of posting here. So if the standards weren't low enough already, I'm going to lower them even more so that I am more likely to post more stuff more often, but not necessarily written well or detailed or well organized. If you want more detail or explanation on anything drop a comment or an email (: ))
So I mentioned at the end of the last post that I was going to have a South Coast (which means colder down under, but supposed to be quite pretty (coastline, vegetation, blowholes...)) trip early in the morning... I sleep pretty lightly and wake up to alarms pretty easily except under very rare circumstances... but this time I just forgot to set my alarm. Luckily enough, even though my alarm didn't go off at 6:30, I got a Google Calendar notice on my phone for something the night before (17 hrs off ;)) at 7am. So I was awake and thought I could make it... which I would have been able to if I had been smart and hopped on it properly, but I underestimated how long it would take to get there and how soon they would leave if I didn't show up... so I missed it.
Snap.
Sounds like I should be able to make it up another time (maybe late October when it's much warmer!) without paying extra. Phew.
===
So... how is it?
Australia's pretty good. it's got it's upsides and downsides. definitely makes me appreciate a lot about princeton, beyond just what i expected (academics, for example). the school is mostly commuter which means it lacks some of the social atmosphere around a lot of college campuses in the states (even when people don't live on campus they often all live very nearby together in houses/apartments/etc) -> makes it harder to meet Australians (or others) randomly at school to hang out, but i've met some through classmates and others so slowly expanding there. some cool study abroad kids for sure but doesn't compare to what it would be like to have a good friend or two from home or school out here. i'm really close to the beach and as it gets warmer (winter -> summer) it's going to be really awesome... which i'm looking forward to. surfing perhaps?
On the Rising and Setting of the Sun
So growing up on the coast in California means that whenever I'm near the ocean I'm almost always on the West coast... which beyond the geographical and cultural reasons for being the best coast, also means that the sun always sets over the ocean. Here, being on the East coast of Australia, not only does the sun not set over the ocean (we get sunrises over the ocean, but who ever sees those? ... and sunrises don't generally look quite so pretty) but also... as the sun gets lower in the sky, for a couple of hours before it actually gets dark, the beach is all in the shade! Makes it much harder to get to the beach after class before the beach gets cold. : / Oh summer...
So I mentioned at the end of the last post that I was going to have a South Coast (which means colder down under, but supposed to be quite pretty (coastline, vegetation, blowholes...)) trip early in the morning... I sleep pretty lightly and wake up to alarms pretty easily except under very rare circumstances... but this time I just forgot to set my alarm. Luckily enough, even though my alarm didn't go off at 6:30, I got a Google Calendar notice on my phone for something the night before (17 hrs off ;)) at 7am. So I was awake and thought I could make it... which I would have been able to if I had been smart and hopped on it properly, but I underestimated how long it would take to get there and how soon they would leave if I didn't show up... so I missed it.
Snap.
Sounds like I should be able to make it up another time (maybe late October when it's much warmer!) without paying extra. Phew.
===
So... how is it?
Australia's pretty good. it's got it's upsides and downsides. definitely makes me appreciate a lot about princeton, beyond just what i expected (academics, for example). the school is mostly commuter which means it lacks some of the social atmosphere around a lot of college campuses in the states (even when people don't live on campus they often all live very nearby together in houses/apartments/etc) -> makes it harder to meet Australians (or others) randomly at school to hang out, but i've met some through classmates and others so slowly expanding there. some cool study abroad kids for sure but doesn't compare to what it would be like to have a good friend or two from home or school out here. i'm really close to the beach and as it gets warmer (winter -> summer) it's going to be really awesome... which i'm looking forward to. surfing perhaps?
On the Rising and Setting of the Sun
So growing up on the coast in California means that whenever I'm near the ocean I'm almost always on the West coast... which beyond the geographical and cultural reasons for being the best coast, also means that the sun always sets over the ocean. Here, being on the East coast of Australia, not only does the sun not set over the ocean (we get sunrises over the ocean, but who ever sees those? ... and sunrises don't generally look quite so pretty) but also... as the sun gets lower in the sky, for a couple of hours before it actually gets dark, the beach is all in the shade! Makes it much harder to get to the beach after class before the beach gets cold. : / Oh summer...
Monday, September 8, 2008
Round 2... Fight!
Besides the fact that this is a round 2 of random blogish entries (this time much more edited... down to mentioning some more fun random eventful days), I've been saying "Round 2" a lot recently... when I've eaten a meal... and 30 minutes later, I'm ready for Round 2! ("Round 2... Fight!" "Hey Sam, what's for Round 2?"). Mmm... food. I'm ready for dinner round two.
Sat - 9 August 2008 - ...then Emily from PoR picked up Brad, his friend Jacob and me. we drove to Edgewood(?) where we parked at the train station then took a train to the Rocks. went to Lowenbrau Pub (Germain, with 1L steins). met up with her friend who was celebrating her 21st bday. Georgie. and her friend Mel (Melissa) from Sri Lanka. had a pretty good time just hanging out and chatting with all of them. went upstairs and sorta danced with them a bit, though the music wasn't that great. will go to the suburbs where they live (NW) sometime... maybe watch a movie and play some billiards and... go to a koala park? not sure. should be fun though. then after went to Pancakes at the Rocks, which apparently didn't have eggs, which were pretty good (Hot and Toppos - buttermilk pancakes with whipped butter, vanilla ice cream, walnuts, fried banana and chocolate sauce) though expensive (11.95 for the two). then walked up to the Elizabeth street to hop on a 373. we were at one of the bus stops (this is all brad, jacob and i) trying to figure out which bus stop to go to from there to get where we needed when these two brazilian girls walked up and asked us about the buses etc. i talked to them for a bit there and then on the way, and then while we were waiting at the next bus stop.
Tues - 12 August 2008 - hmm... had first ELEC tutorial. hadn't done any of the problems, but the ones we went over in class seemed mostly easy. (i.e. easy if i do my work! shit... i need to get on that like whoa!)
Wed - 13 August 2008 - lotsa class (had lab). but got out of lab 1.5 hrs early... talked to mara a bit on the way out... went to TF potluck! nice, good healthy fresh food. and nice chai and date logs w/coconut. yumm... did some work later?
Thurs - 14 August 2008 - lotsa class... then went to TF and bought a fat bag (~.5 kg) of chocolate covered raisins. whoa. nice.
Fri - 15 August 2008 - woke late-ish... ate some raisin toast with butter before going to beach with sam and meghan. brad soon joined us. for a while just lay on the sand next to the two of them... chatted a little, lay in the sun. usually at a beach i will lay around/throw something around etc until i get hot then go in the water briefly (swim around, play in waves, etc)... but the sun here wasn't hot enough to overcome the breeze that was constantly sweeping away the warmth and keeping me a little cold. ended up laying there etc until some dudes who live up the street (brandon et al... kerouha house?) came and then played some two-hand touch football. solid, though i slightly underperformed (missed a 2-3 catches. should have had solid 2 of them. next time.) then went in water and swam for 10 min (~5 out, 5 back). was nice b/c swimming is awesome though quite cold. turns out that though back stroke is super chill in general (and would have thought good as "survival stroke") b/c not much effort but still solid... isn't great as a "survival stroke" b/c your head is mostly in water and gets quite cold (if water is cold). so in that case freestyle is a good choice (generally good for moving and staying warm (!)) and of course side stroke. side stroke maybe best in some senses. anyway... came back... was quite cold and took a loong shower. then just hung out for a while, watched tv, snuggled with myself on a couch... ended up eating finally (made some salad... ate with olive bread and cheddar... great! (and newman's own. holla)). then hung out a little, watched U.S. Dance (as they call it here. -> "so you think you can dance") then went up to danielle, alyssa and rachel's and hung out with the three of them (watched "There's Something About Mary" on TV). came back and started changing pwords b/c my fbook account was spamming people's walls. damn. changed some stuff around. then people came home... ate some bread and cheese, then worked out, now talking to john on skype (then sleep).
Sat - 16 August 2008 - woke to Kyle's phone call. at first said oh shoot can't be ready in 15 min to go to zoo... snap. Then was like... shit, I'm awake anyway... and I want to maximize spending time with people early on in the semester especially... and when they're sober especially! So I called back and said I was in. Got ready mad fast... Was a good time, was stupid, didn't think to bring my camera, but others took pictures so that was cool. while it was cool to see the animals i mostly was thinking about how small the enclosures were :( (compared to the wild obviously, but also other zoos i have seen like san diego zoo which is quite huge). afterwards went to chinatown and ate a delicious hot meal there with Austin and Ron. then went to central, took a train out to Olympic Park where I met up with Shira, Meghan, Brad, Amy, ... to watch the AFL game between Sydney Swans and Geelong Cats. They killed us.
Fri - 22 August 2008 - ...then stopped by danielle's and chatted with her and alyssa... then Tooti picked me up from there and then Shira and then to her house... her family was awesome and fun and joking and bantering and disagreeing and wagering and great (orientate! (which some people say here?) table an issue (which means they want to talk about it), fillet (pronounced fill-it)), solid food, then went out with shira and tooti, stopped by a few places but were dead then went to Lincoln near World Bar which wasn't packed or really happening but she knew a guy working there who got each of us a free drink (mine no alcohol) and then we just sat there and chatted and bantered and were ridiculous for like two hours. shweeet. ...early morning for study abroad trip to South Coast tomorrow. weather = ?
Sat - 9 August 2008 - ...then Emily from PoR picked up Brad, his friend Jacob and me. we drove to Edgewood(?) where we parked at the train station then took a train to the Rocks. went to Lowenbrau Pub (Germain, with 1L steins). met up with her friend who was celebrating her 21st bday. Georgie. and her friend Mel (Melissa) from Sri Lanka. had a pretty good time just hanging out and chatting with all of them. went upstairs and sorta danced with them a bit, though the music wasn't that great. will go to the suburbs where they live (NW) sometime... maybe watch a movie and play some billiards and... go to a koala park? not sure. should be fun though. then after went to Pancakes at the Rocks, which apparently didn't have eggs, which were pretty good (Hot and Toppos - buttermilk pancakes with whipped butter, vanilla ice cream, walnuts, fried banana and chocolate sauce) though expensive (11.95 for the two). then walked up to the Elizabeth street to hop on a 373. we were at one of the bus stops (this is all brad, jacob and i) trying to figure out which bus stop to go to from there to get where we needed when these two brazilian girls walked up and asked us about the buses etc. i talked to them for a bit there and then on the way, and then while we were waiting at the next bus stop.
Tues - 12 August 2008 - hmm... had first ELEC tutorial. hadn't done any of the problems, but the ones we went over in class seemed mostly easy. (i.e. easy if i do my work! shit... i need to get on that like whoa!)
Wed - 13 August 2008 - lotsa class (had lab). but got out of lab 1.5 hrs early... talked to mara a bit on the way out... went to TF potluck! nice, good healthy fresh food. and nice chai and date logs w/coconut. yumm... did some work later?
Thurs - 14 August 2008 - lotsa class... then went to TF and bought a fat bag (~.5 kg) of chocolate covered raisins. whoa. nice.
Fri - 15 August 2008 - woke late-ish... ate some raisin toast with butter before going to beach with sam and meghan. brad soon joined us. for a while just lay on the sand next to the two of them... chatted a little, lay in the sun. usually at a beach i will lay around/throw something around etc until i get hot then go in the water briefly (swim around, play in waves, etc)... but the sun here wasn't hot enough to overcome the breeze that was constantly sweeping away the warmth and keeping me a little cold. ended up laying there etc until some dudes who live up the street (brandon et al... kerouha house?) came and then played some two-hand touch football. solid, though i slightly underperformed (missed a 2-3 catches. should have had solid 2 of them. next time.) then went in water and swam for 10 min (~5 out, 5 back). was nice b/c swimming is awesome though quite cold. turns out that though back stroke is super chill in general (and would have thought good as "survival stroke") b/c not much effort but still solid... isn't great as a "survival stroke" b/c your head is mostly in water and gets quite cold (if water is cold). so in that case freestyle is a good choice (generally good for moving and staying warm (!)) and of course side stroke. side stroke maybe best in some senses. anyway... came back... was quite cold and took a loong shower. then just hung out for a while, watched tv, snuggled with myself on a couch... ended up eating finally (made some salad... ate with olive bread and cheddar... great! (and newman's own. holla)). then hung out a little, watched U.S. Dance (as they call it here. -> "so you think you can dance") then went up to danielle, alyssa and rachel's and hung out with the three of them (watched "There's Something About Mary" on TV). came back and started changing pwords b/c my fbook account was spamming people's walls. damn. changed some stuff around. then people came home... ate some bread and cheese, then worked out, now talking to john on skype (then sleep).
Sat - 16 August 2008 - woke to Kyle's phone call. at first said oh shoot can't be ready in 15 min to go to zoo... snap. Then was like... shit, I'm awake anyway... and I want to maximize spending time with people early on in the semester especially... and when they're sober especially! So I called back and said I was in. Got ready mad fast... Was a good time, was stupid, didn't think to bring my camera, but others took pictures so that was cool. while it was cool to see the animals i mostly was thinking about how small the enclosures were :( (compared to the wild obviously, but also other zoos i have seen like san diego zoo which is quite huge). afterwards went to chinatown and ate a delicious hot meal there with Austin and Ron. then went to central, took a train out to Olympic Park where I met up with Shira, Meghan, Brad, Amy, ... to watch the AFL game between Sydney Swans and Geelong Cats. They killed us.
Fri - 22 August 2008 - ...then stopped by danielle's and chatted with her and alyssa... then Tooti picked me up from there and then Shira and then to her house... her family was awesome and fun and joking and bantering and disagreeing and wagering and great (orientate! (which some people say here?) table an issue (which means they want to talk about it), fillet (pronounced fill-it)), solid food, then went out with shira and tooti, stopped by a few places but were dead then went to Lincoln near World Bar which wasn't packed or really happening but she knew a guy working there who got each of us a free drink (mine no alcohol) and then we just sat there and chatted and bantered and were ridiculous for like two hours. shweeet. ...early morning for study abroad trip to South Coast tomorrow. weather = ?
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